The Savvy Communicator
A lively interview show about how to talk when you’re not sure what to say.
The Savvy Communicator
LARPing and Narrative Therapy: Ben Stimpson on Finding Your Voice
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Ever wondered how storytelling can transform lives? I had such a wonderful time with this episode! Join me as we unpack this compelling subject with our special guest, Ben Stimpson—an author, therapist, and podcaster. Ben's journey begins in North Wales, where he faced significant speech challenges due to dyspraxia. Through dedicated speech therapy, he overcame these hurdles, leading him to a vibrant career in public speaking. Our conversation offers a nuanced look at his experiences, particularly his transition to Canada and the different educational systems he encountered there.
We then review the pressing issues within educational systems, especially for students with special needs. Ben opens up about his struggles within the underfunded Canadian school system, contrasting it with the more supportive UK environment he experienced. His reflections on high school and university are eye-opening, especially when he discusses finding his unique learning style and managing neurodivergence. The turning point came when he joined a Toastmasters club—an experience that became a cornerstone in building his public speaking skills. This chapter offers a critical perspective on traditional educational practices and the urgent need for inclusivity.
Finally, we turn our focus to the broader themes of storytelling in communication. Ben shares fascinating insights into the world of Live Action Role-Playing (LARP) and narrative therapy. Learn how LARP can provide a safe haven for individuals to explore and utilize their voice, and how storytelling shapes self-identity. We also delve into how these skills can benefit medical students through realistic role-play scenarios, emphasizing the importance of effective communication within cultural and social contexts. This episode promises to offer invaluable insights into the transformative power of storytelling and its pivotal role in enhancing communication skills.
You can reach Ben through his website at www.benstimpson.com .
Ben's book is available here: https://www.amazon.com/Ancestral-Whispers-Building-Veneration-Practices/dp/B0CHK4MG8B/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3HSGIODU9FW7M&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.g9IJqw1gpZXaNFmym-s-2oQlVHZmkH3Uks9iopMManiEN-RM0HoIqJM5LWNmWHV0SJT-WaXgjGSUHkA9X1Q4fbCNeuJ1YB_IpQe17nQhub2opRfsly1ySAscy9umtpl0Wm2B31a7TU2ieGLmoCziZAe98KP69EA42KttwupOgzQmmVZQ_qbUTvglTcaUWr959BwAFZVZ_Os0k4NcU23DWn_d9HEKp0USVqzwIiCu574.7u8R90gQjroU1POXENKZGJRekEw0PI-CgFImS0hrAds&dib_tag=se&keywords=book+ancestral+whispers&qid=1719252527&sprefix=book+ancestral+whispers%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-1
Ben's podcast, "Essence with Ben Stimpson", is available here: S04E13 Amy Blackthorn (youtube.com)
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
Transformative Power of Storytelling Through Communication
Speaker 1Welcome to a new episode of the Savvy Communicator. Today, we're talking about how communication through storytelling can have power in the transformation of our own lives. Our expert guest today is Ben Stimson, an author, therapist and podcaster who focuses on spirituality, folklore and history in his therapy work. Ben, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Speaker 2I'm looking forward to this. It's been a while since I've talked about some of these pieces so I'm really looking forward.
Speaker 1I am too. I haven't had anybody on the show like you. What is so amazing to me is your history and background at how you came to a life of public speaking, such a vibrant life of public speaking.
Speaker 2It's very strange considering the amount of speech therapy I had to do when I was a kid. It's very strange considering the amount of speech therapy I had to do when I was a kid. I don't think anybody would imagine that I would just not shut up and continue to speak and speak. But we'll certainly get into it. I'm looking forward to sharing.
Speaker 1Oh, that's great. So tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 2When did you realize or was it your parents that had to realize that you needed speech therapy? So when I was a kid so people probably hear an accent. I'm up in Canada, but I'm originally from North Wales in the United Kingdom, so I suppose they started to put two and two together. That something just wasn't right. When I was about maybe two and a half three years old, and that is normally the time when kids begin to mumble and then words start to form and then start to speak, and that just wasn't happening for me, and so I was mumbling in response and I, like I have vivid memories or some memories of back then in my head. I was just responding and Nobody could understand what was happening.
Speaker 2So North Wales in the 90s was incredible when it came to sports for children and I grew up I was attending. So North Wales a bit like how Canada is in some parts of the United States you have both kind of indigenous language and also English, and so I was attending an English school. There were Welsh schools in the area, but I was attending an English school. There were Welsh schools in the area but I was attending the English school, but it was all one school school board, so I started out in nursery school just before pre-kindergarten. It's kind of strange because their, their school system is kind of a year ahead of North America. So kindergarten for us is about what, five years old, something like that. Over there they start to go to school or nursery school at four. So around four is when they started to detect okay, there's something going on here with this kid, and so they sent me to the local I can't really think what it's called now, but it was a place called Llanderdag and so I went there. I was assessed and my mum particularly my mom particularly really fought for that assessment and it came out that I had a neurological disorder called dyspraxia, which is like dyslexia, only it affects motor movements and controls. So for a lot of people dyspraxia will be a lack of ability to coordinate their body, so they come across as clumsy. For me it was the fine motor skills in my mouth, and so I was trying to form the words, but I couldn't coordinate the muscles in my mouth in order to form those words, and so speech therapy.
Speaker 2I was starting to attend year one, kindergarten or grade one over there, and the school board actually would pay for me to take a taxi from my main school over to another school which was about, let's say, about 15 minutes away, and I would spend half the day there with a wonderful speech pathologist who I believe she's passed away now. She was a little old when I met her and this was about 30 years ago now Well, more than 30 years ago now but she was one of the best speech pathologists. The trouble with that is that she had a thick Welsh accent. My parents had an English accent, so even now I have a slight North Walian lilt to my accent because of it. So I don't know who I am, unless I'm talking to somebody and then I mirror their accent with their from my home areas. But but yeah, so I would go down there.
Speaker 2I think it was about twice a week, for instance, a speech therapy and, and then I actually did a year down at that school. I think I was down there for about six months and that was my main school I went to before I moved back to my old school in Kerwis, and so the speech therapy center was also the regional center for any other kind of special needs. So there were individuals or kids with downs, there were kids with dyslexia, there were kids with other forms of needs, and then they would go there for a short stint and then they would be sent back to their regular schools, which was a very good way of not removing kids from, like they do in North America, removing kids from the mainstream. It's a good way of maintaining those connections with their local communities and because North Wales is one of those areas where there's little little villages all over the place and really to drive from one end to the other it takes about an hour, so it's not a huge place, but it's huge when considering there's no real big major centers in that place.
Speaker 2So that was my, that was my experience, and then I learned how to talk and um, and then unfortunately moved to canada and um, and then that ended and suddenly I was just thrown into a special reading group and that was it. So then I just kind of had to figure things out on my own. I had a lisp, I had an accent and and that caused me to really shut down. But we can get into that.
Speaker 1Sure, no, that was the next question that I was going to ask is what was it like for you, growing up, first to be in this world of care, I would say, and encouragement, and then suddenly, like you said, to be thrown into a different environment altogether?
Speaker 2It was a culture shock and I speak a lot about this, especially with my clients. I work as a therapist and culture shock and trauma in that way is something that I work heavily with. But it was a real shock. I was eight and a half when we moved to Canada. I had been attending my local school with all the people I grew up with for all of those years and to go from that system where you were integrated, where it was all integrated, the supports were there. There was a special reading group that I did go to because they suspected that, like my siblings, I had dyslexia. But that has proven false. I don't have dyslexia, but it was one of those things that was just normalized and I think that was the real mark of the education system in the UK at that time. I know that's changed over there now, but it was all integrated.
Speaker 2When I moved to Canada they had actually never heard of dyspraxia.
Speaker 2So I moved to a little tiny oh, yes, yeah, I moved to a little tiny town, very similar kind of area to where I grew up in North Wales little towns kind of dotted all over the place, and the local school board had never heard of dyspraxia before. And that's when I well, that's not when I realized, but years later I realized that's because there was an incongruence between the UK kind of medical and mental health system versus the Canadian mental health system, which was years behind, and so they just didn't know. So they stuck me in with a special reading group at my elementary school and this was just a you know slow learner sort of group, and I atrophied and I found that I just didn't get any more assistance from that. So it was difficult. It was really difficult, not only for the fact that I was also bullied because I was different. I had an accent and I went from like it's literally you can see the school pictures progress happy smiling kid. Happy smiling kid moved to Canada. Happy smiling kid not happy smiling kid, right?
Speaker 1yeah, oh wow. That hurts to think about, because you were so young at the time and you went from a place of such support to a place that you know really didn't sounds like they didn't really take you individually at that point, they just kind of went along and so you had to grow up with that and what was it like?
Speaker 1uh, for you as you went through. You know I don't, um, I don't know if they call it middle school in Canada, but you know 10, 11, 12, you know getting into, you know that age of almost teenager.
Speaker 2Absolutely. What was that like? So that's the weird thing. Up here. We we call we. We're kind of a mix of the UK and the American system, so some there are some middle schools and there are some just elementary schools that go straight up.
Speaker 2So elementary school for me was until grade eight, and again it was as if I went from this place where I was so supported and I was taught a form of sign language. I was taught Macron sign language and there were so many pieces. There was a lot of understanding. There was a lot of understanding. There was a lot of education. I go to the school system where they were underfunded in that area. They were in the middle of the boonies, really in the middle of nowhere, mostly small towns, and we had a conservative government at the time which did not want to fund education, so education funding for special needs was really low. We had Mike Harris for those who are listening from Canada, mike Harris was in charge at that time. So it was a really strange environment, plus also the whole bullying piece.
Speaker 2And one of the factors of the education system I had in the UK was the types of words that I was taught as a kid and I was also taking Welsh over there too, so there was a little bit of Welsh language piece in there too were big words, because that was how they got you to really exercise your mouth, and so a lot of words I was using were big, flowery, very Shakespearean words, right.
Speaker 2And so then I came to Canada and people didn't talk like that, and so I often was told when I was a kid, like 10, 11, 12, you speak like an adult, you're way mature for your age, and I wasn't. I wasn't mature for my age, I was just using the language that I had been taught and that was expressive, and so I was doubly bullied for that. My use of language was shamed, and so I started to use it less and less until I eventually felt shameful of speaking like that, and so I just clamped down. I just went inside myself. I went into a world of fantasy, literature and folklore and watching television. I didn't have many friends either, because I didn't know how to communicate, how to connect, you know, and so that continued for a very long time.
Speaker 1I had something similar happen to me. I read a lot of old books and I thought the vocabulary in old books. I thought everybody would automatically understand If I said well, this is Malifaux or something like that and people were startled. Adults were startled and that could be a frightening thing because you're like well, if they don't understand then you know, maybe I shouldn't say that at all, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2I think there's a cultural element there too. It's interesting when I talk to friends or I talk to other authors who grew up in a very similar form, like had a very similar experience. A lot of the cultural pieces that we were connecting with were often those things that you know normal kids wouldn't be interested in. But for me there was a big cultural piece in there, because when I've been going through kind of rebuilding my journal from back then and I've been going through creating a nostalgia playlist of of of tv shows that I used to watch when I was a kid in England, in in Wales, and I'm looking at some of the uh, the types of language that were in these television shows and they were very again Shakespearean, um, like really like highbrow kind of British, um, kind of language, right, um, I'm thinking like I grew up on blackadder and um, absolutely fabulous, and like you know, all of these like british comedies that were just always on doctor who. Same thing, right, I like some of my most vivid memories was when I like late 1980s you know being a kid, maybe you know being up way too past my bedtime but having Doctor who, tom Baker, on television, speaking the way that they did, and so of course the types of language that we had when we were younger really supported that.
Speaker 2So to come to Canada, where suddenly it was very different, I did, I escaped, and because of bullying I escaped into my sort of language, my cultural landscape. Right, I wanted a sense of home to that cultural shock piece and so I started to only watch mostly British television shows, and some of them were a little older than I should have been watching, but they were giving me that slice of home, they were giving me that feeling of home and of course that didn't help the situation because because, again, that was the type of language that I was mimicking and using and and speaking right so, yeah, I have to go off on a tangent for a second and ask you did you ever watch a show called the tomorrow?
Speaker 2yes, I did, yes, I did I love that show.
Speaker 1I loved that show growing up. For some reason it was on, we had a kid's channel called Nickelodeon and and it was shown over there and I just fell in love with the whole idea of being able to do that. And so I was, I was. I then went into, you know, trying to levitate things around my house and you know I made a little computer, for I forget what the computer was called, but you know I did all of. I did all that, just loved that show. So you're the first person I've met. That is also you know. That is also know that show, and so I'm thrilled.
Speaker 2But anyway, I love it. I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1Yeah, so, um, I feel like asking this question is is skipping over a lot of things, but I want to ask when did it start to change? For?
Speaker 2you so.
Speaker 1I think, and was that under your own power? Did? Did you have to? Did it come from you? Did you get any more help through the school system?
Speaker 2No, the school system really let me down, and I have a huge gripe about this now, particularly as I'm thinking going towards my master's and thinking I'm going towards receiving my PhD in the UK. The Canadian system really let me down, and in truth, I've spoken about this to teachers who were around me at that time and we've had really good conversations about that. The reality is, again, they were underfunded. We were underneath a conservative government that was not funding and not interested in funding special needs, and so at that point, it was just a well, get what you're given. By that point, though, I had already received in the UK what I really needed, which was again that speech therapy.
Speaker 2Cognitively, there was no. How can I say this? Cognitively, I was high functioning. Now I don't like that language, but that's the best language that we can use. Now, the thing with dyspraxia is it is a form of neurodivergence, so it actually took me a very long time to realize that it wasn't just impacting how I was speaking and every so often, when I get tired, for example, I start to slow my speech and it takes a lot to continue to make sure I'm on top of that piece but it also affects how I think, how I see the world, how I organize my life and how I organize the world. So it really took me a long time, really well into university, to understand how I learn, how I organize information and how I then express myself.
Speaker 2And so during high school, there were many times in high school where I was just I don't understand how, when you have a kid who is who is failing the same class twice, how then that doesn't mean have a meeting, right? You know, I don't understand how you can allow, like a kid who is interested in taking French, for example, to just say, no, there's no room for you, so no, you have to go do something else. There were so many issues with the, with the counseling department of that school, of that high school or that high school. I remember being told once that I wasn't, that my grades were not good enough to get into college or university and I should come back and do another year. Now I found that out, that that was a lie, that was a complete lie, and it was only because I was not receiving that support. I was bored in school, I hated going to high school. There was, you know, the bullying continued and it didn't help that I was also dealing with some sexuality issues around that time it was coming out.
Speaker 2So trying to figure out who I was, while also trying to get other people to just hear me and listen to me, was a big thing. So I would say that it really started to change in university, but there were steps along the way and I know we're inching towards that, yes. So I think one of the big pieces was there was a Toastmasters club that was founded by one of the teachers in the school and I thought you know what I need? Somewhere to hide during lunch hours, as horrible and horrific as that is, I needed a place where I would be safe. So what I often did was I would go and be part of a drama school or drama club during the lunch hour, but then one year we didn't have drama club. So I thought, okay, this Toastmasters club is interesting. They met once a week and I actually came across a little book, a little meditation book that was given to me by the teacher who put it together, and so we just sat and we just worked on speech writing and talking.
Speaker 2Previous to that, I always hated having to do speech days, and I think that this is again one of those real traumatic things that anybody who has been through the education system in North America knows that you know. Every year we have these speech days where you are judged, you know, for your ability to speak or not speak. And you know, for those who are good, or your ability to speak or not speak, and for those who are good eloquent speakers or just good speakers, they get rewarded and they get these ribbons and certificates. How degrading is it to push a kid out and force them to have to do a speech in front of a class and then say, well, it's not good enough for a ribbon. You know like how ridiculous is that?
Speaker 1So I that makes me yeah please that makes me think a lot of uh, you know the united states education system. We don't have speech day in terms of, but we do have a lot of speech in different classes where you have to get up in front of the class and you memorize something and say it again. And I can remember when I was first out of college I taught drama and I can remember assigning that now and just thinking well, you know it's as simple as they memorize it and they have to say it back to me.
Speaker 1What could be more complex about it? And now I'm kind of cringing because I realized I and I was very young and the word neurodivergence hadn't come into it yet. But that's not an excuse. But I sat there and made every single one of them do it and only now am I going back and thinking that was probably incredibly difficult, if not crushing for some.
Speaker 2This is the thing we have the benefit of living in 2024. In 10 years time, we'll be thinking back to this period and be like what were we doing? That's just how it goes. But particularly that culture of memorizing and mimicking Right, there's a whole history of that piece of education, right?
Speaker 2The people who put those into the curriculums were the people who, in the 60s and 70s, were being trained, and that was the dominant way that you taught students, right? Is that by rote, by memorization, by, like, drilling it into their heads? Right? We didn't have any of these ideas of different ways of students learning. We didn't have the understanding that there are different learning styles, right? And so you know, like, I have empathy and I have compassion for my teachers who were forcing us to do this, but in retrospect, in Canada at least, it was a big thing. Every single class in the school and I remember even in elementary school not wanting to do it every single class in the school would do these speeches in class, and then there would be one or two students from, like you know, from a school of 100 and 150 chosen to go then on to the local high school where it would be. So it was a big competition and so, of course, those who had you know photographic memory were the ones who were going to win. Sure, but even attaching that idea of winning when it comes to a basic skill-like communication causes a huge number of issues, and I see that come up a lot with my clients in Canada, of that trauma of not wanting to speak in front of public because you suddenly have all of these kids in front of you and the teachers judging you for the way you're speaking.
Speaker 2Because for someone to win, win everyone else has to exactly, and what kind of a message is that if you're hoping to build into somebody a skill which is essential as as public speaking or even being able to communicate right and I know I don't have to tell you that that's the whole theme of your show, right?
Speaker 1sure it is, um, and what I believe very much is that we can all learn to be better communicators and we can all improve, and when we do that, I think great things happen.
The Power of Storytelling in Communication
Speaker 1But it is certainly not a one size fits all by any means, and you have to meet people where they are and show them that if they put the work in it will be worth it. And it sounds like you really, once you moved to Canada, didn't get that kind of reinforcement anywhere. But tell us a little bit about Toastmasters. I have to be honest, I have heard of Toastmasters probably since high school. I have no idea what actually goes on there, of course. And it sounds like it was something pivotal for you.
Speaker 2It really was at that point and I think I joined them in my first year of grade 12, because I did two years of grade 12. So I joined the club and so Toastmasters is an international organization. They host small groups. I mean, in many ways they're support groups but they are development groups. They're kind of everywhere. There's literally Toastmasters groups everywhere and they're not just an English language organization they are in, they are in various different languages. I believe up in Canada here we actually have a Toastmasters that is centered around an Anishinaabe language, one of the indigenous languages, and so they're using it as a vehicle for that. And the whole point of Toastmasters is to have a safe space that people can come and the focus is not on the content of what they're saying, it's again those presentation skills. So you build that group dynamic of support, you build that mutual dynamic of support and then you build that dynamic of constructive feedback. And that's a really big piece about Toastmasters is the ability to have that space to give feedback and it be received.
Speaker 2A friend of mine, actually in Ireland, near a divergent like me, is a member of quite a few spiritual orders over there, spiritual organizations over there, and has dealt with issues around communication for a very long time. I believe they're on the spectrum as well, and so for them, toastmasters is a wonderful space where they can practice and learn the rules around communication and communicating to a group, because it's so different than just communicating one-on-one. When you suddenly have a group, you have all of these different yes, and that's often where neurodivergent starts to become an issue, because if you're used to one-on-one communication, you're trying to have one-on-one communication with every single person and that doesn't work right. So it's a wonderful organization. When I was doing it, I believe there was I'm trying to think here there were five of us in the group. So all throughout the um the year we had a couple of other people join us, um, but it was the five core members and that's all we did Each time, and the lunch hour was only like 50 minutes long, so it wasn't a huge lunch hour per day and we would meet once a week and we would have little assignments where we would just either we would be reading a passage and trying to put inflection into it, or we would be perhaps using it as a space where we could test out something we had to do for other classes.
Speaker 2So sometimes, especially in drama class, speeches were a big thing. I think we had a philosophy class too, so the debating skill piece was there too. So it was really really neat and I had never been in anything like it. But in truth, thinking back to it, it did remind me of the type of programming that was involved with the Slenderman School that I was at, so there were definitely similarities with it and the support was huge, and so afterwards I received a little certificate for just showing up, which was really nice, and then we continued and that was that, and so, kind of skipping ahead there, I went straight into doing a college course in social work and so I did a two-year I guess in States you'd call it community college so I did a two-year diploma in that and that required good communication skills. So I went from my beautiful little Toastmasters group straight into then counseling classes and communication classes and geared to towards having those skills. So it was a really cool kind of jump off point.
Speaker 2Um, toadmasters I haven't had a chance to be involved. Uh, they're not as popular in my region. I'm sure that they are, um, but they are, as I said, international and people will meet and they'll do events and oftentimes you'll have groups that are kind of centered on particular skills. So you might have a subgroup which are actors and they do narration, or you might have a group that is around particular topics, and so it's a really supportive organization and it's very non-hierarchical.
Speaker 1So you have organizers, obviously, but you also have group consensus, which is really good sounds amazing, so I'll make sure that the information is in the show notes for anybody that might be interested. It sounds like it was really a game changer for you and that's an incredible recommendation to you, know, for anybody. I'd like to shift a little bit and talk a little bit about your background in philosophy, and particularly stories and how you sort of, you know, morph that into your work today.
Speaker 1I think that's just fascinating. You know, the first communication probably was storytelling and it is something that you know, you see reflected everywhere. I know when I began this podcast, I read some wonderful books to kind of get into the feel of it, and all of them, you know, in capital letters, would say storytelling is the most important thing if you want to have a successful show. So please tell us a story about how that became important to you and part of your work Absolutely so.
Speaker 2It was really intertwined with what I was doing in my other parts of my life. Storytelling is essential. Storytelling is a natural and really ingrained part of human psychology, regardless of neurodivergency, regardless of neurotypicalism, it is a baseline aspect and before text, which has only really been around for about 6,000 years, and even that is with only a small percentage of the population, the majority of information was shared orally and it was shared in such a way in societies and continuing, all societies do this, even now where people can gain information, retain the information because it's presented in a certain way, oftentimes again relying on those baseline human psychological structures. So, storytelling, when we think of the old-time fashion storyteller, we think of, you know, the old, old lady telling stories in midnight.
Speaker 2Or, you know, in the English-British context, you have, you know, a local character in the pub telling a story. And what are they doing? They're sharing history. They're sharing not just information about what's happening in the story. They're telling you information about the landscape. They're telling you information about the community. They're oftentimes tailoring that information to best be fitting with that community and they may rely on you know different techniques, but, but oftentimes the reliance is on the landscape itself.
Speaker 2You know so and so hill was where this folktale happened. And you know this castle was built, you know, 1000 years ago by blah blah blah, and then there will be a story attached to it, right? And you see this facet all over the world. So storytelling is part of the social nature, of human sociological connections, right, we're a social species. We often relate through storytelling. So when we think of our own selves, our own history, oftentimes it's relational and story creeps into that. And a good example of that is I challenge everybody listening to this to go around their hometown or wherever you happen to be living and think about your memories of the places that you encounter and that story, oh, oh right, you know, I just flashed on.
Speaker 1There's a little deli restaurant from here where I've been a lot of times with my husband, with my nephews, with my family. And it just burst into my mind when you said that Probably all the stories that are there just from us being there.
Speaker 2It's that relationship right. You've got story, you've got a visual cue, that place, and you have context, and that's often how we find ourselves. So, growing up in Canada, I really, really pined for the UK. That was my home, that was my context, that I was ripped out of. And so what did I do? I tried to relate to the world again through the stories I could find, which were British comedies and folklore and things like that, and that continued to be a big part of my life. My spirituality was really dependent upon it. In 2001, I read the Mists of Avalon by Marian Zimmer Bradley. I love the.
Speaker 2Mists of Avalon and at that point in my life I didn't feel connected at all with my hometown. I was a gay kid. I was just about to discover I was a gay kid and I knew that all of the 18 churches in town were not going to be accepting of me. So suddenly there was this storybook of King Arthur, who I'd grown up with, because King Arthur was a big part of children's literature back when I was a kid and continuing right. And suddenly there's a religion in this that I could see myself through and a form of spirituality that connected me with my landscape and my homeland. So suddenly there was this story that I could find myself in and then I went on and that became a big part of my homeland. So suddenly there was this story that I could find myself in, and then I went on and that became a big part of my life. So neo-paganism is a big part of my life. Folklore is a big part of my life.
Speaker 2Now skip ahead to when I was in university, the last time around, which was going through for social work, I started to realize that there was a connection point. I really wanted to work with people one-on-one and eventually went and trained in spiritual psychotherapy, which is really transpersonal psychotherapy, jungian psychotherapy, right and story is a really big part of that. Previous to that, just before I started to study this and went through for this program, I was starting to sell things at fairs and sort of like hippie festivals and music festivals and I started going to this live action role play, which I do you know live action role play.
Speaker 1I am myself a larper and I have yes, I know hello, I have. I've larped for about 15 years. I now staff a lar. I know hello, I've LARPed for about 15 years. I now staff a LARP. And just the, yeah, the myriad of storytelling that I've been through. I happened to catch a very good one on my first go, which was yeah, which I was very lucky Okay and yeah, yes yes, yes, well, so okay, fellow LARarkers.
Speaker 2So what I started to notice when I was going to these events was a lot of at least the ones I was going to they happened to be a lot of neurodivergent kids, a lot of sometimes trans kids, a lot of gay queer kids, a lot of kids who were pushed to the sidelines when they were younger. What they were doing and I'm sure you found this too is they were exploring themselves through the characters.
Speaker 1Was that your situation too? That was absolutely my experience and I didn't realize it when I started. I wrote this, you know, two paragraph bio and I. That was based on the fact that I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I'd never liked before and I wanted license to be able to stand there and say what is going on. So, you know, I made up this character that hadn't really been in the real world uh, according to the story, the story's real world, and it wasn't until later that I realized I was like I'm growing. I needed to be there and to do this stuff and to realize this stuff Because, you know, all of a sudden, when you're able to stand up in front of the bad guy and say, no, I won't allow you to do this, I won't allow you to hurt people, I won't allow you to hurt me.
Speaker 1Everything changes and I think everybody going through LARP can have that transformational experience. But yeah, I think if you had told me you're going to have a transformational experience, I would have said no, thank you. I was caught up in the costumes and everything and the amazing things that you could do in the middle of the night with just one thing of Christmas lights, yeah and so.
Discovering Communication Through Storytelling
Speaker 2But yes, I've absolutely you know, had that experience like literally like nail on the head, right, right it's. It's one of these things when you go through and you said something really important, that you said license, you wanted license to do these things. When it comes to communication, bringing that piece right oftentimes the issue of communicating for the people often isn't that they're not capable of it, it's that they don't feel like they can because the receiving end might not be safe for them. What LARP showed me and this is like I mean, there's a whole conference on role-playing for psychotherapy, several actually that speak to this is that when you can convince somebody that they have their voice and have always had their voice right, then their voice is not going to be hindered, right, Right.
Speaker 2And so for one of my friends and I love him to bits really vivid memory of him was he was this meek, overweight kid in high school was overrun by, actually ironically, several other people in that LARP that we were playing and didn't have voice. So what did he do? He started to play a paladin. And when he started to play that paladin, he had that safe space to explore what was actually going on for him, the story that he was living with, and to edit it as he needed to. And that is why narrative therapy is such a big part of my work, because it's looking in at that story that we're telling ourselves, in the same way that those storytellers of old would tell the community and inform the community about the community that they're living in. We do the same. We tell ourselves stories, or worse, we accept stories from other people about who we are and who we should be. Right, yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Oh, that is so true and so profound.
Speaker 2Right and.
Speaker 1I hope everybody listening, if you've never, you know LARPed before. Larped, like Ben says, stands for live action, role play and just you know, take a minute and think about it. We're not telling you this is something you have to run out and do, but think about what it would be like to live stories that you've only had in your mind up until now, this is the thing. That's what LARP does.
Speaker 2And you don't have to have a set-up fantasy or sci-fi or apocalyptic game to go and do that. What if your whole life was a larp right?
Speaker 2yeah right, and I often teach with people one of the things that I love I work with a lot of queer kids or a lot of queer people. Just so happens, when I, where I was living before, it happened to be a lot of of younger people from universities and one of the things that they were working with heavily was who am I now? I'm no longer with my parents, who can I be? And so a lot of the stuff that we worked on was going to Starbucks and testing out a new name or a nickname for themselves. What would it be like to have somebody like a barrister shout out a name that you want, that you're curious about for yourself? What would it be like to hear that? What would it be like to experience that for yourself? So what if life was right?
Speaker 1yeah, that is uh. The other thing that I do is teach uh physicians, you know, med students and everything how to be better communicators, and I don't know if you've ever heard of the term standardized patients. So, yeah, I worked training standardized patients for a long time and we had, you know, our clinic setting with, you know, 10 by 10 exam rooms and the table and the desk, with 10 by 10 exam rooms and the table and the desk, and with the idea being, if you can make it as real as possible, then you're not practicing anymore, you're experiencing, and then you have that experience to lean back on when you go to do something for the first time. It's not the first time, and so I'm just completely resonating with you. I think the podcast is going off the rails.
Speaker 2I'm just like let's geek out, it ties in because, again, it's one of those things where, again, communication isn't a skill that we're all born with, it develops. And it develops because of all the socio-psycho-social stuff and the context that we live within. And this is what I often find with my work, and this is often actually why and I also work with other communities, but this is often why you will see people communicating differently in different contexts in their lives, so workplace is a really good example of that. Now you're connected with military, correct?
Speaker 1Yes, yeah, that happens to be where I taught for about 17 years. I have never been in the military myself and it was a place I'd never heard of until I started working there. So I'm not of the military, it just happened to be where I was employed and it's the same as any other civilian medical school that makes sense.
Speaker 2But you would still have seen and noticed, even amongst the enlisted clientele that were coming to you and teaching and learning from you right, that there was a certain culture, the military culture, and in that military culture there's a certain way of speaking, a certain way of understanding, and anything outside of those spaces don't exist. This is how we're communicating, this is how we're going to direct and relate to each other, and we find this throughout our lives. We often find this with family, how I talk to my family downstairs, very different than and maybe inappropriately, um, very different from how I would communicate with clients, versus friends, versus other things, right. So culture has a huge part of as a huge part in in informing us who we're allowed to be, what we're allowed to be, what we should do, how we talk, how we relate, and oftentimes those, those communication skills can go wonky because those that cultural cue is not there or we internalize that narrative of we're not allowed to be a certain way, we're not allowed to express ourselves in a certain way, because it goes against those social cues. And what larp does is and and same with storytelling, um it, it creates those bubbles where we can be something else.
Speaker 2What I love about storytelling in particular, like old, classic form of storytelling is that, again, it was a culture that you were being invited into. So when you go like you hear this often with people who you know they want to go to the UK, they want to go to Europe, they want to go to the local pub and find the real people right, and what we're actually saying is we want to be in that community and experience the community like community members do. Yeah, like understand the landscape, and so oftentimes, like with that communication piece there, it's that misalignment between where you think you're in and where you're actually in, or where you think you're in and where you're actually in, or where you think you're not supposed to be versus where you actually are. And so that idea of LARP and that idea of storytelling is entering into that space so that you can take up space right.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, absolutely, yes, absolutely. I love seeing a student or you know when I taught school, you know students there be able to take that step forward and realize that. You know. It's sort of like the Wizard of Oz you were home all along, but it's a big journey to get there.
Speaker 2No, it is, it is, and I mean this is something I've really come to understand about myself is that I'm actually a really good communicator.
Speaker 2I'm good at presenting, I'm good at like I was speaking at a conference last year, a couple of weeks ago, and I can you know, if you give me a topic, I can just go and do my thing. But when I'm in a group of you know people I semi-know, and it's more of a casual setting, I'm like, ooh, you know, I don't know what, you know, blah, blah, gobbledygook comes out right Again because of the culture that we're in, right. So when I'm supposed to be in presentation mode, I'm very good, I'm, I can stand, I'm, you know, I fill up the stage, I'm, you know, checked out, breathing deeply, all of that. But when it comes to those casual moments, it's like, oh god, what? So it's finding out, okay, well, what? What is the story when I'm on stage and other people, right, what is the story that you're telling yourself? Versus, when you're in those casual friendship kind of moments, well, what other story is coming up? It all comes back to story, yeah.
Speaker 1That is a wonderful perspective. I don't think I've ever heard it presented in quite that way. What is the story you're telling yourself? And you know I I'm gonna think about that, uh, for a while as as I go through different you know areas of my life and and see, because I think that's gonna affect me, that perspective is gonna affect me quite a bit. So well, I'm just having a ball and I hate to wrap things up, so so I wish you live next door.
Speaker 2We'll have to have another conversation. We'll have to do it. Yes.
Speaker 1So I would really, really love that. So, just to wrap up, what would you say for somebody that's starting this journey of being able to take up their own space journey of being able to take up their own space being, you know, starting to transform and try a new name or try a new thing? What would you say to them as they start that journey?
Speaker 2how connected are you with the image that you have in your head? When it comes to that image in your head of who you want to be, how connected are you to that? Because, guaranteed who you think you want to be is actually part of the narrative that you're holding on to right and so it's being open to the evolution. I mean, I would say that yeah being open.
Speaker 1I, I think being open, I think that's beautiful. I think that's beautiful. Everyone we've been talking to Ben Stimson. He is a presenter, he is a therapist, he is a podcaster, he is a LARPer and all sorts of things Other than that. I encourage you to go to his website, wwwbenstimpsoncom. We will have all of that in the show notes. Ben, I can't thank you enough for being here.
Speaker 2Thank you so much. This was a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker 1Ben's book is entitled Ancestral Whispers a guide to developing ancestral veneration practices. It is available on Amazon and on Audible as an audio book. Their podcast is called Essence with Ben Stimpson, available on YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts, you can contact them via their website at wwwbenstimpsoncom. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed the show, please give us a like and a review, or tell a friend to check us out. Our full episode list and other information can be found on our website, wwwsavvycommunicatorcom. Check the show notes too. Thanks for being here today. We'll see you next time.
