The Savvy Communicator
A lively interview show about how to talk when you’re not sure what to say.
The Savvy Communicator
Freeing Yourself from Self-Shame and Judgement--with Anna Thellmann
Ever wondered how open, honest dialogue can transform your sex life? Prepare to gain deep insights as we sit down with sexual intimacy coach, Anna Thellmann. Anna pulls back the curtain on her coaching journey, sharing how she equips individuals to quiet their mental noise and tune into their bodies. She also shines a light on her method to break down barriers and foster candid conversations, which can be an eye-opener for many of us who are hesitant to voice our needs and desires.
We delve into the roots of self-shame and self-blame, opening up an enlightening conversation on letting go of judgement. Anna emphasizes the role of positivity and a judgment-free environment in a successful coaching process. Whether you are curious about sexual intimacy coaching or simply want to enhance your communication about sex, this episode promises to be a goldmine of useful, empowering information. Tune in.
Find out more about Anna and her coaching practice at www.AnnaThellmann.com
This is a show where ideas come together. The guest statements expressed on The Savvy Communicator Podcast are their own and not necessarily the views of The Savvy Communicator.
Thanks for joining us! Become part of the conversation at www.savvycommunicator.com, and follow me on social media: my handle is @savvycommunicator.
Hi and welcome to the Sabu Communicator podcast. I'm your host, Amy Flanagan. You might not want the kids around for today's episode because we're discussing how to communicate about sex. This is a place where we discuss all things communication, facial expressions, body language and, most importantly, how to talk when you're not sure what to say. My expert guest today is Anna Thellmann, a sexual intimacy coach.
Amy:Thank you for having me. It's very honored to be here. Oh, I appreciate it so much. I have to admit I'm a little nervous. I've never talked to a sexual intimacy coach before.
Anna:I'm hoping that a lot of people are in the same situation when they come to see you for the first time, is true, but on the other hand, the thing is, when they are aware that I'm a sexual intimacy coach, they open up and talk about their sexuality or the non-existence of their sexual life.
Amy:So that's very helpful. On the other hand, so is it sometimes like you get permission to go ahead and just start talking just by knowing that's what you're there.
Anna:Particularly when I'm in networking meetings and we go into breakout rooms and then they say, oh, Anna, you're a sexual intimacy coach, and say, yeah, oh, by the way, my wife and I, or my wife or me. So whatever it is, but it gives them the I guess just the comforts to talk to someone who knows stuff that might help them.
Amy:Yes, Would you say that how much the population, would you say just generally, could use the help of an intimacy coach? I'd say 90%. At least I thought you might say something like that. Yeah, Because it's something that you know. It is not something that you were just born knowing how to do.
Anna:Yeah, and there's so much to it. So it's not just the sexual activity, it's the foreplay, and the foreplay starts long before the foreplay. The foreplay starts after the sexual activity already. So it's a cycle and there is a lot of intimacy that is just in the relationship that is needed to have a fulfilled relationship, even if we put sex aside. That intimacy, not just sexual, not the physical intimacy, but the emotional intimacy, the social intimacy, the intellectual intimacy there's so much around it that is ideally placed into having that as fulfilled sexual life.
Amy:Wow, ok, yeah, I realize I'm nodding along and saying mm-hmm as we're going through this and I'm sounding like an expert and I'm definitely not. It's just something I noticed. Tell me, how did you become a sexual intimacy coach? What was that?
Anna:Well, the thing is I started my own business here in China about two years ago and before that, back in England, I was a coach. I helped apprentices at the college to deal with their life, their studies, et cetera. And coming then to China, I missed it and got the opportunity to set up my own business. And I knew I wanted to coach. I knew I wanted to help people accept the good, the bad and the ugly that they are, but I didn't know how to put it into words, how to communicate it. So I got help from different coaches and that journey was quite disappointing because it just confused me even more. And then eventually I said OK, I just call myself a life coach. I know my tools, I know that I want to help people in a certain way and it will happen. Eventually I will find the niche that will speak to me.
Anna:And it's this typical how to shower, go out of the shower. And An idea came to my mind. I said what if all of these tools I'm using would also work in the bedroom? And I myself I love masturbating and it's a healthy thing to masturbate two to three times a week. Ladies, keeps you fit, keeps you young. Just to say that.
Amy:I like those things, that's good.
Anna:But for me, I had this limiting belief, or I developed that limiting belief, that I need this big, amazing fantasy and it has to be bigger and bolder every time. And as soon as there was a different thought coming in, it was panic in my body, in my mind, and it wasn't enjoyable anymore. So I thought, what if I use these tools to quieten my mind, to focus on my body and just give it a go? And that's what I did and I had such an amazing orgasm without any fantasies, without any preparation, without any tension. I mean, you have tension when you have an orgasm, but it's this cramping up. So that wasn't there. It was just like cool from toes to tip to toes, like I say, it was just easy, flowing.
Anna:And I thought I need to share this. You don't need to know that. It's in your head. Whatever you think becomes your result. So when you think that I control myself, I can't have sex with my partner because I don't look a certain way, I don't behave or move a certain way, etc. It's in your head and I can help you to get past that so that you can have this built sexual, intimate life. And that's how I became the sexual intimacy.
Amy:That's wonderful and that seems so important and, like you said, so many people don't talk about it or feel that they shouldn't talk about it or that it's something that you can't get help with. And tell me, when you have a client that comes to you, how do you encourage them to open up and to be honest with you, because I'm sure a lot of people have difficulties with that?
Anna:The thing is, when they come to me, they know I'm a sexual intimacy coach, so they know that they come because they want to have sex and don't have it. Currently, the main goal is I want to have sex, but I don't have it. How can you help? So they are inclined to talk about it. So there isn't much reinforcement needed or any persuasion to say, okay, let's talk about it. But what there is, on the other hand, is that some people don't like to use particular words penis, vagina, sex, doggy style, stuff like that.
Anna:So we just use the language that they feel comfortable with. We just give the same things different names in the way that you feel comfortable talking about it all day, if needed.
Amy:Okay, so that's good. So you kind of meet them where they are. So when you have a client, and whether they're there by themselves or whether they're there with a partner, how do you encourage them to start communicating, like you said already, so they know who you are and what you do and they know why they're there. So that makes it easier. And do you have a lot of? I guess that was a roundabout way to get to the question Do you have a lot of clients that have trouble communicating with their partner?
Anna:But it's usually due to because they don't know what they want and they don't know why they are stuck, and you don't know what you don't know. So how do you communicate something that you don't know? Yeah, so, of course, a lot of my work also entails to just figure out. What do you actually want? What is it that makes you happy? What is it that stimulates your body or mind? It will keep you推somiet be as it is, and then we move on to say, okay, how can we bring this across in your particular way? Not in the words that I tell you to say, but what feels comfortable to you to say? I give you a structure, because there are particular structures that are more helpful the sandwich method with positive solution, positive stuff like this.
Anna:Yes, and you can use those, yes, in that sexual intimacy fields.
Amy:Yeah, that's so interesting that you talk about using the sandwich method for feedback. I worked in medical education for many years and a big part of that was giving feedback to students and doctors and the sandwich method. A lot of people say, oh, that's kind of old and tired. Why should we do this? It's so important because you want to give something to improve on in the middle of the positive, because in my perspective and in my work and I want to hear what your opinion is that way the person knows that you're not just saying all the nice things, that there is something that they can work on and then it makes the positive feedback a little more positive and genuine because they're doing that. What would be your opinion on something like that?
Anna:Yeah, I'll give you an example. So one of my clients she didn't have the foreplay that she would love to have, so we talked about it. So how can you tell your partner what you would like to happen during the foreplay? And for her, she wanted that her partner squeezes her nipples so that she has more traction or just more feeling in it. So she came up with I love it when you touch my breasts. What I would love even more is if you would like my nipples.
Amy:that would give me a lot of pleasure and that ended up being comfortable for her to say we got that.
Anna:She wasn't used to talking about these things. Like many of my clients, they aren't used to talking about these things with her partners. They don't even tell themselves what they like. But giving them this non-judgmental space to just let's explore what do you want? And she wants her nipples to be nippled on, fair enough, whatever floats your boat. So how can we put that into a nice feedback and also give some improvement suggestion? And this way? Her partner knows she loves it when I touch her breasts, oh, and this will make her even hotter. Amazing. Let's do this.
Amy:Yeah, that's great. So it sounds like you really work hard to bring a positive feeling and cultivate that positivity towards whatever the person feels and needs.
Anna:Yes, it's very important In any coaching relationship. It's important to be positive and show the client that there is the light at the end of the tunnel, when you are now, this is just a phase.
Anna:This is just the stage right now, thank you, and we move forward and that is very encouraging and that's what they came for. They want to get to that light. So just make it easier, and maybe not easier, but make it more fun and enjoyable to get there, even though it's sometimes hard work, particularly emotionally and when you become aware of, oh my God, I've done it like this all these years and that's why it didn't work. And they might come in some self-shaming or self-blaming. And then we say, ok, that's OK, we let it come, we let that feeling come and we let it go. There's no need to push it away or to hold on to it, we just invite it and then send it off again.
Amy:That sounds. That's a lovely image, talking about seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and knowing it's there. And I want to talk a little bit about what you were saying about people that have self-blame or self-shame around sex. Because, just as a little personal anecdote, I went to Catholic school and I was taught about the rhythm method for birth control and everything else was pretty much. The only education I got was not until you're married. So it was very difficult at first especially when I met my husband, to figure out all that. So a lot of other people experience that kind of self-shaming and self-blame, and not just in the bedroom.
Amy:Where do you think it comes from, and not just in?
Anna:the bedroom Any part of their lives. The thing is when we should look at it like, yes, this is the sexual part of your life, and when you self-shame and self-blame in the sexual part of your life, you most likely do it in every other part of your life, because you talk to yourself and you don't stop talking to yourself when you get out of the bedroom, when you do your business, when you talk to your children, when you interact with people. Those sorts are there. Then self-shaming comes with you.
Amy:We're going to take a quick break. Our expert guest is Anna Thelman, a sexual intimacy coach, and we are talking about communicating in the bedroom. Be right back, music, welcome back. We're here with Anna Thelman. Anna, I want to take a moment and go back to what you were talking about with people that self-shame a lot. Where do you think it comes from that so many people have that?
Anna:trouble. I want to introduce you to the idea that there is this voice in your head and let's call it the judge. Yes, it's judging us. And what happened at one point in your early life? There was a situation. It doesn't have to be a trauma, it doesn't have to be anything big. It can be just that you asked your parents something that turned around and said now you don't get it and that's where your judge then came. And your judge is there to protect you from emotional harm. And for that particular situation, your judge came like here I am and protect me. So I'm telling you that it's you Just go away. And what happens is we carry that judge and that judge becomes many different forms.
Anna:So we can be very people pleasing, very controlling or sectionism. That's one point, a big point for many people, that everything has to be perfect. And that's that voice, that judge, that Because of something happened when you were a child, it came to protect you. And while we grow older, while we start to think more, while we get to grow and understand ourselves better, we usually don't need that voice anymore, that protection, but we're so used to it because it gives us the comfort and we identify ourselves with that voice. So we think this is who I am. I am a perfectionist. I hear many people say that I am a proclamant perfectionist. That's no you're not.
Anna:You haven't been born a perfectionist. Something happened that gave rise to that voice that wants to protect you. And so far you haven't learned to let go of that voice, to quieten that voice, because we don't want to get rid of it, we just want to quieten it so to let out the more positive thoughts, the more self-assuring, self-compassionate thoughts. But right now, that other voice, that self-blaming, self-shaming voice, is so loud that it insects every area of our life, every decision we make. It's so dominant and I teach my clients to quieten that voice so that we can give rise to the positivity, to the self-compassion, to see what else is there underneath that self-shame and self-name. And it's so amazing to see, when you quieten that voice, so many other thoughts come to mind that you, where are they coming from? Because it's so quiet and now your mind is free to just create, and creation is usually positive, positivity, positive, and it moves you forward Because you want to improve yourself, you want to achieve your goals, you want to get to that night.
Amy:Yeah, wow, that's a beautiful explanation. I really like that Because, yeah, I can see if I'm having a rough day. I can criticize myself on everything from how I pick out fruit at the grocery store to more important things on the agenda. But it's really nice to hear you acknowledge and accommodate the fact that that's something that people have everywhere, on all levels, and to address that instead of just saying well, I could see some coaches I've known some coaches that are very I'll use the word precise in what they do and they're like well, you're here to fix this problem, I'll fix this problem and that's it. Thank you very much, and it sounds like that you really pay attention to the entire gamut of what's going on, so that this individual problem isn't just fixed in the bedroom but is fixed for their entire life. I'm not here.
Anna:My job isn't to fix your problem. My job is to help you so you can fix any problem in your life.
Amy:Wow, that's really that's what we're doing, so that we work together.
Anna:my programs are six months long because I want to build you up your confidence up in yourself. So when you leave my program, that you know when shit hits the fan excuse my French, I can deal with it. No, it might be tough, I might cry. Whatever happens, I can deal with it. Wow.
Amy:So would you say that a lot of people get more than they bargained for when they sign up for one of your courses?
Anna:I don't see it that way, it's just like Mm-hmm.
Amy:I see it in a very good way, in that they might think that they're just coming in to talk about one thing. But, like you said, that really resonated with me when you said to fix any problem.
Anna:Yeah.
Amy:Yeah, on your own. You know, you might think, well, I'm coming to see Anna because I want to have a good orgasm, and but it seems like there's so much more than that.
Anna:Yes but, the thing is, when my clients come to me, they have that particular situation in mind. So they are missing sex and that's their main focus to get that orgasm back, to have that sexual intimate relationship. And it's like when you go and you want to lose weight, you go to someone who helps you particularly with losing weight, because that's your problem, let's call it. Even though it's not a problem, it's just something in your mind that you think, whoa, you need to do this. But you look for those people who help you with that, and even those will give you tools that you can use in every area of your life. Like, yeah, if you want your orgasm back, we talk about sex, we talk about orgasms, we talk about all of that that's important to you and, in addition, you can handle your life after Much easier.
Amy:I wanted to go back to something you mentioned in people policing, and that there are a lot of people that feel. You know, in my opinion there's thousands upon thousands of people who feel that that's a good and valid way to communicate is by always putting the other person first and that if the other person is feeling good, whether that's business or in the bedroom, then they have succeeded and they feel good about that. So when you meet a client, that's a people pleaser is there a particular way that you go about working?
Anna:with them. Usually, when they come to me, they are not aware that they are people pleaser, like many people aren't aware that they are pleasing people, and we get to the root of that step by step. And what happens when you are a people pleaser is that what you do is usually connected to an expectation that you have. So you're nice, I'm nice to Amy, I'm here at her podcast and I want her to promote me so I get more clients.
Anna:So I'm being very nice to you, so that you are nice to me, gotcha. The other thing is that it's coming back to that voice in our head, to that judge, because many of us are trained to believe that when we think about ourselves first, it's a bad thing. We have to think about the others Only. When we are in service to others, we are happy. And that sentence. In itself that's correct, because it makes you happy to help others. What's missing is that you pull from an empty cow. So what you're giving is connected to expectations, is connected to, probably, a lack of happiness and lack of purpose. It might be fear. So there's some sort of I call it negative attachment in this way. That's why you want to please people, and when you turn it around and when you fill your cup first, when you look after yourself first.
Anna:It doesn't mean you go away for a weekend to ignore everyone. It just means, like setting your boundaries, saying no, occasionally, have a box, do something that makes you happy no one else, just you and that's how you fill up that cup. And when you do that, you will be so in tune with yourself. You will be so passionate and compassionate about yourself so you don't have the need for those expectations anymore, because you're just here saying I love myself, I love you. Let's love the world, yeah.
Amy:And it doesn't matter. I like that. Let's love the world. Yeah, and it doesn't matter what comes back.
Anna:It doesn't matter. You're not waiting for any feedback. You're not waiting for I know clients you look for on social media. How many likes or etc. Do you get? Yeah, because there is a lack. They serve, but they still expect. When you just serve, serve yourself first. Then, when your cup is overflowing, there's so much more for the rest of us.
Amy:So, anna, tell me how can potential clients get in touch with you if they would like to learn more?
Anna:Well, they can send me an email. My email is Anna@annathellmann. com . They find me on LinkedIn under Anna Thellmann, or on Facebook, same Anna Thellmann. Well, they can have a look at my websites, annathellmanncom.
Amy:All right, I have all those links in the show notes available for you and Anna, I can't thank you enough for being here today and bringing our conversation about communication to a new level. I think the main things that I'm personally going to take away are what you said about the light at the end of the tunnel and knowing the light is there, Just as you mentioned. That's something you can apply to anything, not just the bedroom, and I'm certainly going to take away the thought of the judge and try to work on getting my judge to be better at talking to me. I think that's really important too. I appreciate it so much. Thank you for being here today.
Amy:Thank you for giving me the time. Thank you, and thanks to our audience for listening today. If you like what you hear, please leave us a review, join us on Facebook or Instagram, or check out our website at wwwsavvycomunicatorcom. We'll see you next time.
